Comments for ken wilson online http://kenwilsononline.com one step closer Mon, 08 Mar 2010 07:13:53 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 Comment on apologies to the memory of Charles Darwin by Eric W http://kenwilsononline.com/2009/02/12/apologies-to-the-memory-of-charles-darwin/comment-page-5/#comment-3843 Eric W Mon, 08 Mar 2010 07:13:53 +0000 http://kenwilsononline.com/?p=373#comment-3843 Growing up with a foundation in faith and an active curiosity about all things mechanical and scientific, I've struggled to reconcile the two and the older I got and more I learned, the more difficult it became. I literally happened onto "The Language of God" by Collins (http://www.amazon.com/Language-God-Scientist-Presents-Evidence/dp/0743286391) at a layover at an airport and found in it the start of the reconciliation I had always been looking for. Tonight I happened across this entry and I think it's the next step. I've never understood why science hasn't been held up as the ***ABSOLUTE EPITOME*** of God's creation in that the His creation is SO amazing, SO intricate, SO complex, SO vast that it has taken thousands of years for humans to develop the ability to really BEGIN to understand it. Who are we to think that one book could teach us everything there is to know about His creation? Who are we to think that ANY reading of the Bible, no matter how literal or how interpretive, could COME CLOSE to allowing us to completely understand all that He has done and all that He is capable of? Why isn't science, in all its amazing depth and breadth, the ultimate proof of the beauty of His creation? To me, the divide between science and religion has been nonsensical in that denying the inherent connection between them trivializes both, robbing each of incredible meaning. Growing up with a foundation in faith and an active curiosity about all things mechanical and scientific, I’ve struggled to reconcile the two and the older I got and more I learned, the more difficult it became.

I literally happened onto “The Language of God” by Collins (http://www.amazon.com/Language-God-Scientist-Presents-Evidence/dp/0743286391) at a layover at an airport and found in it the start of the reconciliation I had always been looking for.

Tonight I happened across this entry and I think it’s the next step.

I’ve never understood why science hasn’t been held up as the ***ABSOLUTE EPITOME*** of God’s creation in that the His creation is SO amazing, SO intricate, SO complex, SO vast that it has taken thousands of years for humans to develop the ability to really BEGIN to understand it.

Who are we to think that one book could teach us everything there is to know about His creation? Who are we to think that ANY reading of the Bible, no matter how literal or how interpretive, could COME CLOSE to allowing us to completely understand all that He has done and all that He is capable of?

Why isn’t science, in all its amazing depth and breadth, the ultimate proof of the beauty of His creation?

To me, the divide between science and religion has been nonsensical in that denying the inherent connection between them trivializes both, robbing each of incredible meaning.

]]> Comment on advice to young pastors: leading in an age of anxiety by Kim http://kenwilsononline.com/2010/03/02/advice-to-young-pastors-leading-in-an-age-of-anxiety/comment-page-1/#comment-3839 Kim Fri, 05 Mar 2010 19:29:39 +0000 http://kenwilsononline.com/?p=792#comment-3839 I think you are touching on issues that are hugely helpful for all pastors and leaders, in this series. Thank you. I think more retreat and quiet time with God is needed to survive this role these days. Hard to come by but as necessary as oxygen. I think you are touching on issues that are hugely helpful for all pastors and leaders, in this series. Thank you.

I think more retreat and quiet time with God is needed to survive this role these days. Hard to come by but as necessary as oxygen.

]]> Comment on advice to young pastors: leading in an age of anxiety by Vic Holtz http://kenwilsononline.com/2010/03/02/advice-to-young-pastors-leading-in-an-age-of-anxiety/comment-page-1/#comment-3838 Vic Holtz Thu, 04 Mar 2010 19:33:52 +0000 http://kenwilsononline.com/?p=792#comment-3838 Being a church planter in a third world city like Monroe, the Internet is present but not dominate. The local newspaper is still king but has had to shift its focus to local issues and local news and events to maintain its readership. Not everyone has email, including some church leadership which is a challenge. Living with one foot on the twenty first century and the other in the twentieth century can be a challenge. The major cause of anxiety for the people in our church is finding a job and pastors are looked upon to do the job of preaching the Gospel and praying for folks. As a church planter my life revolves around the evangelistic task of leading folks to Christ and then spending the rest of my time trying to find ways to keep them there. Their lives give our church all the turmoil and anxiety we can handle. This is where being real is so important otherwise our "spirituality" doesn't hold water. Being a church planter in a third world city like Monroe, the Internet is present but not dominate. The local newspaper is still king but has had to shift its focus to local issues and local news and events to maintain its readership. Not everyone has email, including some church leadership which is a challenge. Living with one foot on the twenty first century and the other in the twentieth century can be a challenge.

The major cause of anxiety for the people in our church is finding a job and pastors are looked upon to do the job of preaching the Gospel and praying for folks. As a church planter my life revolves around the evangelistic task of leading folks to Christ and then spending the rest of my time trying to find ways to keep them there. Their lives give our church all the turmoil and anxiety we can handle. This is where being real is so important otherwise our “spirituality” doesn’t hold water.

]]> Comment on advice to young pastors: leading in an age of anxiety by Belfry http://kenwilsononline.com/2010/03/02/advice-to-young-pastors-leading-in-an-age-of-anxiety/comment-page-1/#comment-3837 Belfry Thu, 04 Mar 2010 19:08:57 +0000 http://kenwilsononline.com/?p=792#comment-3837 I like this, Ken. I like where you are going. Anxiety and peace seem to be at odds. I like this, Ken. I like where you are going. Anxiety and peace seem to be at odds.

]]> Comment on advice to young pastors: leading in an age of anxiety by Nigel http://kenwilsononline.com/2010/03/02/advice-to-young-pastors-leading-in-an-age-of-anxiety/comment-page-1/#comment-3835 Nigel Tue, 02 Mar 2010 21:00:34 +0000 http://kenwilsononline.com/?p=792#comment-3835 I've heard it said that when pastors are doing their jobs, turmoil will not be far behind. I wonder if the communities with the least stress and anxiety and turmoil are the ones in which their pastor's job description merely says, "Keep everyone as happy as you can." I hope the the Church will remember that a less anxious pastor can be a more effective pastor. Not only in his/her effectiveness but also by their example! I will be very sad if our staff forgets to make time to pray together, build friendships, eat pizza, and celebrate God's grace in our lives and community because we've become too busy with "important" things. I’ve heard it said that when pastors are doing their jobs, turmoil will not be far behind. I wonder if the communities with the least stress and anxiety and turmoil are the ones in which their pastor’s job description merely says, “Keep everyone as happy as you can.”

I hope the the Church will remember that a less anxious pastor can be a more effective pastor. Not only in his/her effectiveness but also by their example! I will be very sad if our staff forgets to make time to pray together, build friendships, eat pizza, and celebrate God’s grace in our lives and community because we’ve become too busy with “important” things.

]]> Comment on advice to young pastors: leading in an age of anxiety by David Wild http://kenwilsononline.com/2010/03/02/advice-to-young-pastors-leading-in-an-age-of-anxiety/comment-page-1/#comment-3834 David Wild Tue, 02 Mar 2010 19:43:39 +0000 http://kenwilsononline.com/?p=792#comment-3834 It seems like providing a still haven in the presence of God might move to the top of the list of useful services the local church can usefully provide. We can download sermons (and I do, thank you annarborvineyard.org!); we can share life events, prayer needs and ideas through email, blogs and social networking; we can organize support for people in need. All of this is fantastic, and I think we underestimate its positive impact. But I just haven't managed to download and deep peace with God recently. We seem to live in a world in which even things which are not urgent have a great sense of urgency to them ("I have to respond to that email NOW!") and to be honest even though I grew up in a different era I am now having a hard time pressing the pause button (or even remembering how to press the pause button). I remember having a retreat event at the vineyard once where we didn't do much other than sit around silently before God, eat some nice basic food, and pray for each other. I could do with one of those at least once a week really. It seems like providing a still haven in the presence of God might move to the top of the list of useful services the local church can usefully provide. We can download sermons (and I do, thank you annarborvineyard.org!); we can share life events, prayer needs and ideas through email, blogs and social networking; we can organize support for people in need. All of this is fantastic, and I think we underestimate its positive impact. But I just haven’t managed to download and deep peace with God recently. We seem to live in a world in which even things which are not urgent have a great sense of urgency to them (”I have to respond to that email NOW!”) and to be honest even though I grew up in a different era I am now having a hard time pressing the pause button (or even remembering how to press the pause button). I remember having a retreat event at the vineyard once where we didn’t do much other than sit around silently before God, eat some nice basic food, and pray for each other. I could do with one of those at least once a week really.

]]> Comment on advice to young pastors: the ground is shifting beneath your feet by jim1234 http://kenwilsononline.com/2010/02/12/advice-to-young-pastors-the-ground-is-shifting-beneath-your-feet/comment-page-1/#comment-3828 jim1234 Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:51:57 +0000 http://kenwilsononline.com/?p=783#comment-3828 There's no substance in this post, Pastor Ken is only pointing out that people are examining, or re-examining various Biblical doctrines. Protestants have been doing that since day 1 I would think. Well before the advent of Wimber, Bob Mumford et. al. were teaching in depth about the Kingdom of God. Pastor Ken, can you be specific? What doctrines are you challenging or expecting to change? Is homosexuality now non-sinful and acceptable? Is the Trinity still a viable doctrine? Is abortion acceptable? Is the Vineyard going to join the Unitarian denomination? I don't want to rush to a conclusion, but given the trend of the Vineyard as a whole, I don't have a warm, confident, feeling about what you are alluding too. There’s no substance in this post, Pastor Ken is only pointing out that people are examining, or re-examining various Biblical doctrines. Protestants have been doing that since day 1 I would think. Well before the advent of Wimber, Bob Mumford et. al. were teaching in depth about the Kingdom of God.

Pastor Ken, can you be specific? What doctrines are you challenging or expecting to change? Is homosexuality now non-sinful and acceptable? Is the Trinity still a viable doctrine? Is abortion acceptable? Is the Vineyard going to join the Unitarian denomination?

I don’t want to rush to a conclusion, but given the trend of the Vineyard as a whole, I don’t have a warm, confident, feeling about what you are alluding too.

]]> Comment on advice to young pastors: the ground is shifting beneath your feet by Dave http://kenwilsononline.com/2010/02/12/advice-to-young-pastors-the-ground-is-shifting-beneath-your-feet/comment-page-1/#comment-3826 Dave Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:11:15 +0000 http://kenwilsononline.com/?p=783#comment-3826 I have friends who are feeling this and freaking out. One friend in particular holds incredibly strongly to her doctrine and sees this "earthquake" happening and believes it is demonic in origin and a sign of the end times. The "lack of interest in doctrine" and an openness to conversation is being interpreted as blasphemy and deception about truth. It is very hard to even find an opening for conversation with my friends and other people with this perspective. Humility is interpreted as a lack of faith and conviction. Analysis of alternate biblical interpretations is viewed as heresy. I know there's a point at which any kind of conversation with people of fixed mindsets becomes fruitless. Still, I think it would be great to have more thoughts and practical ideas about how to communicate and continue fellowship with our brothers and sisters who are viewing anyone involved in this shift as under evil influence. I know it's something with which I'm struggling. I have friends who are feeling this and freaking out. One friend in particular holds incredibly strongly to her doctrine and sees this “earthquake” happening and believes it is demonic in origin and a sign of the end times. The “lack of interest in doctrine” and an openness to conversation is being interpreted as blasphemy and deception about truth.

It is very hard to even find an opening for conversation with my friends and other people with this perspective. Humility is interpreted as a lack of faith and conviction. Analysis of alternate biblical interpretations is viewed as heresy.

I know there’s a point at which any kind of conversation with people of fixed mindsets becomes fruitless. Still, I think it would be great to have more thoughts and practical ideas about how to communicate and continue fellowship with our brothers and sisters who are viewing anyone involved in this shift as under evil influence. I know it’s something with which I’m struggling.

]]> Comment on advice to young pastors: the ground is shifting beneath your feet by Phil http://kenwilsononline.com/2010/02/12/advice-to-young-pastors-the-ground-is-shifting-beneath-your-feet/comment-page-1/#comment-3825 Phil Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:37:21 +0000 http://kenwilsononline.com/?p=783#comment-3825 Possibly another good analogy is the shifting in American economics based on the hit the financial system took. I think for some there is a lot of anxiety still a brewing. For others, maybe there is hope that the breakdown in the status quo and the American dream may provide some free to dream of a reformed way of living, which may involve some older practices that were the norm just several generations ago. To name some examples, family gardening (which all happened to be organic (Dow Chemical's innovative herbicide and pesticide solutions had not yet hit the market nor did the mass production of food...I think) was a very common practice. Also, the concept of knowing our neighbor and having more common shared life with those in close proximity. Just today I had a fruitful conversation with a 20 something who is moving the direction of intentional community in a diverse area with the mission to grow together and be a change agent in that area. Having lived in the suburb, and now even in the heart of A2, there is still something lacking in terms of community which puts a huge stress on parenting and marriages in my mind; which I think is a key part of the foundation of any community. So maybe with the anxiety, there is also discontentment in the boomer's kids that are signs that something is going to shift; and it is not only limited to how we read our bibles, experience church on Sunday and pray...or at least that's my hope. :) Sorry for jumping on my soap box here, and I apologize for being a little off topic. In summary, I agree that there is change in the air; my hope is that with the guiding of the Holy Spirit we can tern the anxiety and discontentment into something more beautiful than what we have today. Although I should probably add that my personal "earthquake" experience with regard to my health has actually birthed deeper relationships that has challenged even more the desire to be in closer proximity to friends and sharing more in each others struggles and hopes. Possibly another good analogy is the shifting in American economics based on the hit the financial system took. I think for some there is a lot of anxiety still a brewing. For others, maybe there is hope that the breakdown in the status quo and the American dream may provide some free to dream of a reformed way of living, which may involve some older practices that were the norm just several generations ago.

To name some examples, family gardening (which all happened to be organic (Dow Chemical’s innovative herbicide and pesticide solutions had not yet hit the market nor did the mass production of food…I think) was a very common practice.

Also, the concept of knowing our neighbor and having more common shared life with those in close proximity. Just today I had a fruitful conversation with a 20 something who is moving the direction of intentional community in a diverse area with the mission to grow together and be a change agent in that area. Having lived in the suburb, and now even in the heart of A2, there is still something lacking in terms of community which puts a huge stress on parenting and marriages in my mind; which I think is a key part of the foundation of any community.

So maybe with the anxiety, there is also discontentment in the boomer’s kids that are signs that something is going to shift; and it is not only limited to how we read our bibles, experience church on Sunday and pray…or at least that’s my hope. :)

Sorry for jumping on my soap box here, and I apologize for being a little off topic. In summary, I agree that there is change in the air; my hope is that with the guiding of the Holy Spirit we can tern the anxiety and discontentment into something more beautiful than what we have today. Although I should probably add that my personal “earthquake” experience with regard to my health has actually birthed deeper relationships that has challenged even more the desire to be in closer proximity to friends and sharing more in each others struggles and hopes.

]]> Comment on advice to young pastors: the ground is shifting beneath your feet by happylad http://kenwilsononline.com/2010/02/12/advice-to-young-pastors-the-ground-is-shifting-beneath-your-feet/comment-page-1/#comment-3824 happylad Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:56:35 +0000 http://kenwilsononline.com/?p=783#comment-3824 Ken, What do you predict this earthquake will look like? From this post I can't say I agree or not since you didn't give this upcoming upheaval much definition. What massive shifts are you predicting in the church? Ken,

What do you predict this earthquake will look like? From this post I can’t say I agree or not since you didn’t give this upcoming upheaval much definition. What massive shifts are you predicting in the church?

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