Comments on: why missionaries might prefer centered sets

By: cls

cls — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 01:28:29 +0000

mm, I really like Joao’s #12. I resonate with that a lot, because in some ways that is part of my story.

As I’ve gone through life, I’ve found some of my perspectives on Christianity not fitting so neatly inside the bounded set, and the result is that I’ve freaked out some friends and family who can’t understand how I can be a Jesus follower while not fitting so neatly inside their ‘boundary.’

What is interesting is that as I’ve understood grace more, the outside boundary has seemed less and relevant, because my ultimate security is in Jesus’ death and resurrection …

By: gem

gem — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 21:22:58 +0000

Thanks for the comments. I have read all of the posts and comments, and I mostly have questions because it seems like a nice theory, but I wonder what does this look like. If the centered set approach allows Jesus to increase and the religious pretense to decrease, then wisdom will be justified by her children.

By: joao

joao — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:48:40 +0000

I am beginning to get this. I have been very comfortable in the bounded set mentality since becoming a believer in 1986.

At the time, I felt ok about my moral fiber. Reading the scripture was a good experience when I read about some sins (yeah, I don’t do those) and scary when I read about others (oops, I do those). As I worked towards being on the inside of the particular bounded set my church seemed to follow and made progress, I felt like I was growing. It was easy to plan my growth, to set goals.

As I ‘fixed’ many of my sins, I found myself mostly within the set and I started to relax. I saw no further need to keep growing beyond where I was. I graduated !!

At present, I do find myself rather comfortable within my circle of acceptability. The scary part about centered set is that all of the sudden, I am in bad shape again. I feel I am not really growing a lot lately, and that is ok according to a bounded set if I don’t cross the line outward, but it is terrible according to the centered set because my rate of travel towards the center has slowed.

So…I am a bit nervous about what living in a centered set may mean. It’s like ‘what will Jesus ask me to do next? And He has a history of asking his folks to do rather challenging things, inclding dying.

By: Belfry

Belfry — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 17:04:36 +0000

Yes, work of the Spirit. Allowing the Holy Spirit entrance. Inviting the Holy Spirit’s entrance and posession of oneself. Allowing the Holy Spirit to put oneself in another room for awhile and operate the vehicle. This is what is called for.

As to moving away from sin, I don’t think so. That is not what is going on here. It is inviting the Holy Spirit into one’s heart to take up residence there. Take up dominion there. Asking the Holy Spirit to please boot out the current resident.

But of course this occupation by the Holy Spirit is temporary. Soon the current resident boots the Holy Spirit out.

We never do leave sin behind. We can only hope that the Holy Spirit will help us deal with this problem from time to time. We can only hope that we can get its help to make course corrections from time to time.

By: ken

ken — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:27:34 +0000

A hearty “thank you-amen” to comments 9,8,7. A centered set church may also have requirements for various things (membership, etc.) To steve’s comment: the centered set approach relies on movement toward the center. Adopting a set of belief-convictions does not equal movement. Faith working itself out in love does. Movement is a work of the Spirit which cannot be generated by organizational strategies (those these can facilitate or impede). Examples of movement: serving, giving, facing personal struggles, caring for others, praying.

By: Barb

Barb — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 14:54:02 +0000

I see some misconceptions about what a centered set approach means.
1) To have a centered set approach is not equivalent to never having anything clearly defined as sin. It just puts the focus on the simple call to believe in and follow Jesus.
2) A centered set approach does not mean sin is not dealt with. If people are following (i.e. obeying)Jesus, they will be moving away from sin.
3) If people are turning to Jesus in faith and following him, that will ultimately affect the culture.

By: Glen

Glen — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 14:26:36 +0000

The problem I have with bounded set groups is that I see sin as a continuum. As we follow Jesus we move away from sin, but we are never totally free. Paul expressed this as crucifying the old man, it seemed even Paul continued to struggle with the old nature. So if this is true, where do you draw the line and how do you know for sure since alot of sin is internal? For me I find it more satisfying seeing people moving toward Jesus, this is often easy to see. It puts Jesus in charge of the process. So I see my job as a Christian is to get as many people as possible on the path and to help them move toward Jesus. As a side comment, this is why I am not nervous with Ken having these discussions since there is no doubt in my mind that Ken is trying to follow the path.

By: steven hamilton

steven hamilton — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 12:19:44 +0000

gem –

i’m not sure the cnetered-set isn’t a challenge. in fact, i would say it is the most radical challenge. re-orient life around a different center is totally challenging to most people, epsecially me. lots of things are always threatening to de-center Jesus in my life…including church.

i think the missionary-perspective is right on, as newbigin and others have told us, we live in a post-Christian era (not a post-religious one…that’s for sure, just post-Christian) and thus we need to become missionaries to north america.

as to the holocaust example, had more people been centered on jesus, instead of letting other de-center him and put your culture/heritage/nation’s leader in that place, a centered set would have made a huge difference.

By: David Wild

David Wild — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 23:58:52 +0000

There’s a helpful little section on this in David Adam’s (the Vicar of Lindisfarne) Flame in My Heart looking at how St Aidan had to tackle these issues in bringing Christianity to Northumbria (http://www.amazon.com/Flame-My-Heart-Aidan-Today/dp/0281050333). One nice quote in the context of mission: “If you cannot accept the otherness of the person you meet, how can you be open to the Great Other which is God?”

By: Jeff Zapor

Jeff Zapor — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 12:51:57 +0000

YEP!
It isn’t that missionaries are trying to play fast and loose with the rules, it’s just that mistakes happen and things get messy when you are trying new nets. Oh well. Erwin McManus talks about the fact that you are just going to do some dumb, messy things when trying to take the gospel to places it hasn’t been before. As soon as a method of evangelism gets established it is probably out of date and won’t connect with the ever changing culture. The message never changes, but the means have to. There is reason at times to talk about the repercussions, but we’ve got to keep going. Of course I don’t like knowing that I’ve done something stupid, but I can only trust in God’s mercy here too.