Why are you putting quotations around “Make room”. Is this referring to a particular message our pastor gave? I completely agree with your post #9.

We live in a fallen world. As we draw closer to Jesus, we hopefully start changing. For me, it has been a process of casting out condemnation of others. My hope is that the holy spirit works on people and renews their lives. Part of that is to move away from sin, like greed, gossip and sexual promiscuity. For me before my God, I say welcome to people living honestly and receptive to what God wills in their life. As another person stated, Jesus didn’t tell Zac what he had to do. That came as Zac’s supernatural response to a radical and socially unacceptable no strings attached welcome by Jesus. I think Jesus’s example is worth copying.

Wow! You guys are Anti-Semitic now, too.

That explains Ken’s recent GRATUITOUS cheap shot slipped in to his sermon on the Samaritans FALSELY connecting them to modern day Palestinians by saying they lived in “Gaza, the West Bank..and other places.”

Yeah Ken…especially OTHER places. lol

Don’t think we aren’t watching your every word even as you insidiously SLANDER modern day Israelis while you DISTORT the Bible’s message.

not B.acking D.own

PS For those of you who heard Ken’s otherwise interesting sermon on the Samaritans, ask him why he didn’t mention that, in Matthew 10:5, Jesus himself, when instructing his disciples as to how they should spread the word, Jesus tells them NOT to visit any Samaritan city.

That’s pretty cold, Ken. Do you want to correct HIM too?

We can love those struggling with sin without embracing the sin. What you’re suggesting is that we throw out a large part of the Old and New Testament in order to “make room” for people (that includes those of us in the church and those outside the church), without showing them the right direction. I don’t see Jesus discipling Zacchaeus over the long haul and waiting for him to “discover” his sin. Something in the message of Jesus caused Zac to see his condition.

Embracing and affirming sinful conditions, whether that be gossip, greed, harming the earth, homosexuality or rage doesn’t benefit anyone. We will remain in an infantile state, unchallenged in our brokenness. And that is something Jesus never did.

I was digging a drainage ditch yesterday and kept hearing the phrase, “The desire for righteousness, insidiously infected and secretly driven by fear, propagates murderers.” I had watched the film, Milk, the night before. Christians have allowed their certainty about issues to be a means to justify hidden fear of the “other”—those that think, look, and live differently than our faith/scripture justified standard. Are we not now the Jews, afraid to be contaminated by and ready to exclude those sinners and enemies of the faith; the new gentiles-scientists and homosexuals?

Why are we afraid to have what we know as truth to be challenged and be interpreted another way? Are we afraid to find out we were missing more truth that would force us to change our thinking. Do any of us still think the universe revolves around the earth? Do we not want our understanding to grow and develop? Does the bible not breath freedom? Do we impose a hierarchy of sins? What was important to Jesus? Our precise and correct interpretation, fulfillment and enforcement of the law? OR Love God, neighbor, tax collectors, sinners, enemies……What about– do justice, love kindness, walk humbly? What about the wedding feast and who makes it to the party? Who are the Jews and who are the gentiles now?

Why do we worry about where truth comes from, instead of seeking the wisdom to see how truth’s many facets combine some day and in some way to give us the whole truth picture. The secular book, Snow Falling On Cedars does an excellent job of showing how certainty based on solid facts can be completely wrong when a little part of the whole truth is still missing. When Christians know full well, that we only know in part, isn’t acknowledging our uncertainty over issues and doctrine healthy and shouldn’t it be a great source of material to debate and reason with God about? Why are we invited then to, “Come let us reason together?”

Why can’t scientists contribute freely to truth and help us understand more about our ourselves and even faith; and visa versa? Why have Christians labeled scientists, homosexuals and other humans as wrong and the enemy? Why do so many of these same people view the Christian church as their enemy? I think it is because in response to our “certainty” we have effectively built huge stumbling blocks and labeled other human beings as evil. No wonder they hate us and write nasty things about our faith. We drive them to it! Yes– we do need to apologize… and not just about Darwin.

We are all wrong some of the time. If I am to be wrong, I want it to be because I loved, included, welcomed, tolerated, and was uncertain too much. Not because I defended the faith by judging, condemning, excluding, and murdering the potential for faith in those who are honest about who they are, free and open in their quest for truth, and are in need of some good news.

The day has come for the Gospel of Jesus to be good news for all people. I want a kid and his two moms (or dads) to feel at home in the church. I want a cellular biologist to be filled by the holy spirit. I want a Jew to see me as a friend and brother. AND, I want to stop praying,” Father, forgive us for what we do to one another.”

Thank you Ken. Keep pressing on.

Jesus himself said if a man looks unto a woman with lust in his eyes he has already committed adultery with her in his heart. So to me this is saying they are one and the same.

Seems like a double standard.

Everyone still sins even though they go to church and love Jesus. We change from Glory to Glory daily. The day I was saved I was not instantly perfect as Jesus, but through his Word I learn how to live holy and I keep learning more and more. So we need to continually work out our salvation becoming more and more like Jesus.

I feel like if everyone stopped pretending that they were perfect and be more transparent then we would be able to be healed from our sins (james 5:16). But our current American church environment says to us that those who sin are not welcome, so if they aren’t welcome, then we tell ourselves there is no way in heck I would disclose my personal “hidden” sins for fear of the same outcome.

I have disclosed “hidden” sin to my husband and sinners who don’t go to church since I know they won’t judge me or get all superspiritual on me.

If the proud homosexual or unrepentant adulterous person comes to church should we rejoice because they might learn something that could help them be more like Jesus?

Is it more important that they draw closer to Jesus and start becoming more holy although other sins remain – or – is it more important that they get preached at about the behavior which they currently are unwilling/unable to change – and so stop coming to church?

Does the bible say expel the wicked from among you? Yes. But then who would be in church?

I tend to think that if someone is in church they know that they are missing something that Jesus offers and that is a step in the right direction. I don’t have the answer for all of my questions, does anyone feel they can shed some light on these or others in my previous post?

I found this while pondering: It’s more harsh than I like but then again am I to bend myself to the bible or bend my bible to me?
I think the former although it’s not so simple.
http://hstrial-dtuck.homestead.com/Confronting_Sin_in_Others-_Riggs.htm * ((this is not completely my point of view))*

I’d appreciate another look at this from someone with a different point of view.