Comments on: jesus freak, evangie, evangi-mergent, emergent, emerging, just don’t call me late for dinner

By: ken

ken — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:19:18 +0000

Chris, This is really one of the great nubs of moral and religious education, isn’t it? We operate under the myth of individualism which overstates how much of our identity we choose and underestimates how much we receive.
A child doesn’t choose to exist, doesn’t choose her name….the earliest moral sense as well is received. How could it be otherwise? In a sense, if there is a personal God, this would also be his challenge: how to teach humans to receive what’s good/true, without becoming credulous….. One would need to teach both truth as it is known as well as the freedom of the receiving agent to test and approve (choose) for one’s self. Jesus seems to have been good at this. The invitation to follow, is an invitation to taste and see by experience….it’s not an invitation to believe then follow, but follow then believe. So maybe this is something parents are to model with children: invite them to follow, but with the understanding that in following they will
need to discern for themselves and choose. (It’s one reason, I prefer believers to infant baptism.) A great question worth pondering, those are just initial thoughts.

By: Chris

Chris — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 11:59:15 +0000

Amen indeed, Ken. [In deed: to act, "to commit, to place our bet on what’s real with our lives."]

This brings up in my mind a topic of great interest to me, the topic of how to raise a child while encouraging her to believe nothing, especially about religion, just because:
a so-called wise person said it, or
a belief is generally held, or
it is said in ancient books, or
it is said to be of divine origin, or
someone else believes it,
but to believe only what she herself tests and judges to be true, after her mind has matured enough to test and judge the claims of any religion for herself.

By: ken

ken — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 15:03:52 +0000

Amen to that, Chris. I would only add: be willing to believe something; we only have one life to live and we have to invest it somewhere; it can be self-serving to set the threshold of conviction so high that it allows us never to commit, to place our bet on what’s real with our lives.

By: Chris

Chris — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 06:20:14 +0000

“Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held. Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin. Believe nothing just because someone else believes it. Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true.” — Gautama Siddharta

By: Archie

Archie — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 18:39:00 +0000

Ken, several parts of that quote actually reminded me of you when I read it for the first time, so I’m not surprised that you like it. I respect your commitment to seeking truth, and I agree that one’s commitment “to the demands of truth as one finds them” is paramount. I believe that one’s search for truth is not an end in itself but a means to the end of one’s commitment to truth.

By: ken

ken — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 14:45:26 +0000

Archie, I think that extended quote could also serve as an excellent guide to the heart of a disciple of Jesus. I would add the willingness to commit to the demands of truth as one finds them. So that the pursuit of truth doesn’t become itself a reason to procrastinate on committing to the truth as the truth is revealed/discovered. Maybe I’d also add looking for indications that the truth is pursuing us. At that quote is a real find, thanks for sending it.

By: Archie

Archie — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 03:59:17 +0000

In doing some research on the topic of self-honesty, I recently found the following quote about seeking for truth:

“You must want to know truth more than you want to feel secure, protect the status quo, or preserve your belief image. You must be willing to engage in sometimes hard and time-consuming work, get your hands dirty, tear the cover off your fears, anxieties, wishes, and dreams, and pull them kicking into the harsh light of reality. You must find the courage to ask difficult questions, uncomfortable questions, uneasy, even irreverent, questions. You must be willing to place the search for truth above everything else — your beliefs, your religion, your concept of God, even your own salvation. Unless you are willing to do this you are being dishonest with yourself and any questions you formulate will be clouded with dishonesty, your search subverted by opportunism and self-interest. For the sake of truth, then, presume nothing, be honest with yourself, know your weaknesses and biases, understand your assumptions, ask difficult questions, read different types of books, study a broad range of topics, research history, take classes, return to school, learn a language, take as much time as you need, and test everything you encounter while pursuing truth along a thousand avenues of inquiry.”

http://www.control-z.com/pgs/what_is_self_honesty.html

Wow. It sounds to me like I’m going to be quite busy, as long as I continue to honor Truth as the object of my devotion.

By: Eva

Eva — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 02:28:01 +0000

Oh Ken you crack me up. Hugs to Nancy.
Eva

By: metler

metler — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 18:41:34 +0000

Well Ken you hit the nail on the head, thanks.

Archie? The truth is a man. He said of himself I am the way, the truth, and the life…Jn 14

The truth IS what is true.

By: ken

ken — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 18:31:44 +0000

No.