First off, I feel so misunderstood about the “culture war” comments. The title of the blog was “the culture war metaphor examined.” I was sharing only my views of what it could mean. I personally do not care if the word is used or not, it just is what it is…My reference to it was in fact not specifically toward the secular system. I was merely trying to say as Christians and as peculiar people that makes us a culture in ourselves.

In James chapter 4, is what I am trying to say, especially in verse 5.kjv “Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, the spirit that dwelleth in us lusted to envy”. It seems I am not very good at making my point of explanation understood in writing, for this, I apologize if I have offended or confused anyone on what they believe are my own perceptions of “Culture War”. My reference was, as bob explained, in spiritual terms of the principalities and powers we battle, and the battles we also battle in our flesh in our walk in the spirit.

In response, “No, actually I think Jesus came to befriend us unbelievers, us enemies of God in order to make believers and friends of God.” I agree on the premise of what you are saying for love and peace.

I believe Jesus is God manifest in the flesh, came and was sent here, to a sin-filled world because too many of God’s own were being sent to hell not being able to live under the law; for the fall of Adam that separated them from him. I see the love and mercy, in our lord here… In addition, he has paid the penalty once and for all to restore his relationship with his creation, fallen man, and in doing so he had to be obedient to the Cross. This I see, as a war of the flesh, the mind, and the spirit. As for the statement of it not being in the bible “I don’t see any examples of Jesus engaging in this type of culture war” an example from the bible, my reference was, the culture of the times was afraid of our Lord to the point they crucified him. He had a war there, it lead to the cross and in the obedience of Jesus, to the Father, by surrendering his will, this created in all those that believe on him a culture in its own, of love. Yes, to give grace unto the believer, by faith and build his Church, whom are suppose to be his soldiers in Christ, ambassadors of Christ to proclaim the gospel message to the dark, evil, sin-filled world without separation from God. A fight, a battle and a war, even though we can do this in love, we still have this situation to contend with, as he had his, on the cross.

Ok, I do not necessarily agree completely that culture is primarily a human construct, not for the Christian, if you are thinking in secular terms, yes. . Webster’s online definition of “culture” had this to say. . (d:) The set of values, conventions, or social practices associated with a particular field, activity, or societal characteristic. (c) The set of shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices that characterizes an institution or organization . My definition, input…

“Is the point of Jesus coming to draw his followers into a culture war with secular culture–as Jill suggests, the believers pitted against (good war language) the unbelievers.” Again, Please do not misunderstand me here, it was not meant to be secular as in physical, only in the piercing spiritually the darkness of the unbeliever as referenced earlier in Matthew 10, speaks of those against each other. I don’t know if you’re familiar with a Christian saying, “Born to Raze Hell”, meaning \Raze\, v. To destroy to demolish, to obliterate, ruin, strike out, tear down.” For this purpose, the Son of God was manifested that he might destroy (Raze) the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8; Clearly, a spiritual warfare, some could call the bottom line of this “corporate focus” of people in Christianity, a culture; and what we do in our fight of good faith in our battles of hardship, against our own natural desires and flesh, we war… Webster’s version of War (b:) a struggle or competition between opposing forces or for a particular end and people, God’s word said, “They will hate you because they hated me”, but be of good cheer I have overcome the world. Operate in the sword of the spirit, the shield of faith, and sod in preparation of the gospel.

Be blessed,
Jill

Seems like much ado about very little to me, but I can go along with ‘culture struggle’

We might also consider calling it ‘culture defense’ as much that Christians are accused of fighting over is really just an attempt to hold off the advance of ungodly agendas. Are the warriors really the Christians trying to preserve things such as traditional marriage, or those who seek to overturn the traditional and biblical meaning of marriage? Are the warriors really those who work on behalf of the unborn or those who fight against any restrictions on abortion whatsoever? Are the warriors really those who would like to preserve some of our Judeo-Christian heritage within our educational system or those who seek to remove every vestige of that heritage from education?

Christians can stand against ungodly agendas while at the same time reaching out with the love of Christ to individuals who are ‘ripe for the harvest’.

I think it’s a little like saying to Republicans and Democrats, “Just be more bi-partisan.” Well, the problem is that there are real differences! People aren’t just going to abandon them. The culture war is about something. If I’m remembering one video I’ve seen about it, it says clearly, “Children are the booty of this culture war.” And I tend to agree–most Christians involved with this see the hearts and minds of their children at stake. There are other big issues, too, but when you involve the kids, the stakes get really high.

So now you have two dynamics–the culture war metaphor, and the other evangelical/fundamentalist tendancy to retreat from the world. I think they go hand-in-hand. This is the way most folks think they must protect their young–retreat from the world to some degree, shelter the kids, and fight back when necessary.

I’m much less enamored of the culture war metaphor than I used to be, but I think the issues are stake in the “war” are legitimate ones. To just say to people, “War is bad and un-Biblical–call a truce”–well, it probably isn’t going to work. We need another approach. How do we still care about the issues involved in the “war” and do something about them? Is there a replacement metaphor? A way for people to work constructively on these issues? I have a few inklings of my own, but I’m interested in your ideas, Ken, as well as others.

seriously, what i want to embrace in your comment above is your following Christ through identification with unbelievers and enemies of God…you are a man after God’s own heart mr. wilson…

i know i am much more inclined to be one who shies away from or is suspicious of the use of war as a metaphor for action, even though i need to be challenged to be more balanced in applying the good (as you pointed out that paul did with timothy)…so how about this piece of wordcraft as my metaphoric wardance:

wearisome world
worrisome groan
this life of voodoo
bitter taste in my bones

chicory is the tint
of this world…nothing new
yet still striving my strained eyes
to glance something askew

shiny is the prophet of main street slang –
itching ears to be scratched
by a lying spirit
with fangs

a tongue from of old
practiced in deceit
words flung like dry bones
cast by a houngan on bourbon street

yet his bones they are silent
no clarity to be found
the present no-more-so
eyes turn toward the ground

then heard is a rumbling
and a shaking that confounds
as saints march forth
a new hope that astounds

angelic is the battle
that looms overhead
His Presence rushing forth
as we rest in our beds

the wicked ones – they flee
at His Presence announced
while others in awe
marked with Beauty pronounced

the symmetry of karma
is wrecked by Another
this shattering Grace
of the Alpha and Omega

no more the brittle bones
do they break beneath me
the old marrow reborn
new Spirit fills deeply

like a heaping spoonful of beans
poured over steaming rice
His Presence rushing forth
filled with new spice

fresh mojo in my bones
a vitality springing forth
the taste of new life
embraced beyond and always thenceforth

Culture, on the other hand, is primarily a human construct. Cultures are formed and developed and nurtured by people. Some might argue that because the powers and principalities tend to latch on, and even seemingly energize certain cultural constructs, that this legitimizes the use of war as a metaphor with culture.

The problem is that few people are very good at separating out the people from the principality, if you will. Furthermore, I don’t see any examples of Jesus engaging in this type of culture war. In fact, I think you could point to the parable of the tares and the wheat as a strong admonition against culture warring. Starting shooting at the culture and you’re likely to loose some wheat.

Just some thoughts.

On an unrelated note my middle aged next door neighbor, who happens to live with her female partner, shoveled my side walk after this week’s snow. I probably should note that I am a 28 year old and former athlete who is very capable of pushing a shovel. I was humbled by the love God demonstrated through her sacrifice for our family. Maybe we can engage in a Culture Lovefest. Jesus seemed to love people into the kingdom, not engage them in battle. Just some thoughts…let’s keep grappling together.